Friday, January 22, 2010

Casting Spells - Spells on the Fly

I'd like to start this post by saying that this "tag-team" approach of posting has been working out pretty well IMO, if for no other reason than to keep conversations really fresh and active. Which really means, thanks to everyone who has taken time to respond! For those of you who've been waiting for this next post, I apologize for the holdup--some rather ugly dental surgery prevented coherent thought the last week or so.

So when last we tuned in on the Spirit of Greyhawk, we had talked through the mechanics of Spell Casting "by the book". This entry we delve into casting "on the fly" -- Sorcery.

At the risk of repeating myself, SoG diverges a bit from Greyhawk's canon in that magical effects can also be cast by users without the mechanics of "locking in" a pre-made spell.

Whereas casting a pre-made spell by the book gives the caster the ability to use 2DF+2, spell casting on the fly is rather a normal skill-related difficulty roll of 4DF. In other words, it's possible that a spell fails when the caster is making something up.

NOTE: For those of you long-time readers, you're going to note a lot of similarities to Mike's original Fantasy-related spell castings.

The Basic Process of Spell Casting "On the Fly"

For most normal castings, the process works out like this:

Before the roll of the Dice:
The player and GM determine the difficulty to generate the magical effect. This is done by the following:

  • Figure out what magical effect you want to achieve. This is also known as the spell's Power.
  • The caster determines what pre-existing Skill (owned by the caster) the Magic Stunt is tied to, for purposes of setting a baseline skill ability.
  • Determine any other desired spell Improvements, which make the casting MORE difficult.
  • Determine any other desired spell Modifiers, which make the casting LESS difficult.


Roll the Dice:
Roll 4DF and net the result to the Caster's skill. Compare it against the difficulty of the spell to determine casting success or failure. Note that this is considered an uncontesed skill.

After the Dice Roll:
From there, the player
  • If desired (or available!), Fate points can be used as per normal to make any necessary modifications to Roll.
  • Determine what property of the spell will benefit from any MoS (margin of success). Barring some other spell "widget", the basic choices for what to do with MoS are right out of SotC:
    • Reduce Time Required: 1 shift reduces spellcasting time by one step on the Time Chart (the version of the Time Chart used by SoG is coming up shortly).
    • Increase Quality of Outcome: This is where some other property of the spell (Targets, Duration, Power, Range) are increased on a 1 shift for a +1.
    • Increase Subtlety: This one's a bit of a clunker, I think. But at the moment I'm thinking 1 shift makes the spell harder to counter by +2. I modified SotC's definition of what "subtlety" refers to with respect to a spell. Once I think through "counter-spells" or something whereby a spell could be undone (or even resisted), this may end up being a modifier to the spell's Power with respect to countering or resisting.
      OPEN ISSUE: I'm not sure what the 2:1 ratio does to game balance yet. But if it was left at a 1:1 ratio to counter-spell or resist, why would a caster bother with increased subtlety? Increased Power would get you the same effect for countering and make the spell more... well, powerful. So by doing this, it provides the opportunity where a spell might not be terribly powerful, but rather is very SUBTLE. Anyway, not sure yet.
  • Consider the net results of any modifications and go from there.

NOTE: Aspects in play would be tagged or compelled normally and have the normal effects, so I didn't include them here. But understand that a shrewd caster can generate a significant amount of shifts via free Aspect tags without having to dip into his Fate Points!

Analysis

At first read, that might sound relatively crunchy. While it's true that if a player was to go nuts with this--it could be. However all my play test sessions to date have borne out that this works out pretty well and actually combat still moves right along. And one of the PC's in the game actually has Magic as an apex skill, with the Magic Stunt allowing for him to create spells on the fly. Given that, and the player's tendency to be a "Power Player" (meaning: looking for every +1 he can get), Sorcery hasn't slowed down play at all.

Editorial Analysis: Upon further consideration and looking at how we worked out the spell below, I am now thinking in hindsight the spell might have been interpreted in a crunchier fashion. However, as long as player and GM are satisfied with the interpretation then gameplay is served. So, the crunch factor has something of a "water seeks its own level" effect, based upon who's playing and reffing.

Powers, Improvements and Modifiers

This is where a lot of the fun comes in and we'll spend some time going into each one--as each category probably deserves a separate post. So for some of the examples I'm going to list, I'm gonna ask that you "trust me". :)

Here's the fun part: all the examples I'll use actually happened in SoG gameplay!

Example: Made-up Spell "Spear of Freedom"
Situation: Caellod, "Paladin" of Trithereon (CG deity) is on a ridgeline looking down at some manner of nefarious ritual being led by four Clerics of Iuz on the plain below. Surrounded as they were by hundreds of followers in a writhing mass, he knows he has no ability to get close to the clerics to interrupt them. He determines he wants to create a spell to temporarily enchant his spear with the power of his god to strike one of the clerics within the center of the ritual--almost half a mile away!

So the difficulty for this spell was quickly determined to be the following:

  • Power: Launch a spear to fly further than it could normally (+1 difficulty, Substitute Magic Skill for Missile Skill)
  • Improvement: Range: Legendary (+8 difficulty!) (Ref determined lobbing a spear half a mile from high ground would be on a caliber with Greek legend)
  • Modifier: Material Component: Blessed Spear of Trithereon (Uncommon, -2 difficulty)
  • Casting Time: Base Casting time is determined by the net result (1 + 8 - 2 = 6, which equates to 15 minutes to cast)

...The player decided to not increase the difficulty on the casting by shortening the spell (gambling that the observed ritual was going to go that long), so the difficulty was set at 1 + 8 - 2 = 6, or Fantastic difficulty to cast the spell. The player tied the Magic Stunt to his Magic Skill (+5, his apex skill), rolled the dice and got +3 for a result of +8. So this meant Success, with an MoS of +2. The MoS was then determined to be used to make the "Missile" attack more effective. The player decided to not use any Fate points to increase the MoS further.

Now because of the way the spell was set up, it was interpreted the Range difficulty did not make the attack more powerful, just able to overcome the range. So the difficulty of the spell (6) was netted out from the skill result (8) and thus the target was dealing with aFair attack (+2).

The cleric missed an Alertness roll so this attack was essentially considered an Ambush and the defense roll was considered Mediocre (+0). So the number 2 physical stress box was checked and the spell was done. Story-wise, the cleric was effectively interrupted from whatever he was working on within the ritual.

And, oh yeah--the PC had effectively lost his Blessed Spear! (nyah-ha-ha!)

So if you're thinking about interpretation, that's actually pretty nice--what equates to a 6th level cleric spell to inflict a fairly modest amount of damage to a remote target, at the cost to the player of 15 minutes of casting time, and one of the cleric's holy symbols.

Not bad for spells on the fly.

I'll probably throw a few more examples in the next posting.

[Hey -- this is Spirit of the Blank's 100th post! --Mike]

11 comments:

Stuart said...

I can see a huge number of areas in your example spell that are open to massive amounts of interpretation. I'd worry that spell difficulties would vary dramatically depending upon a player's persuasive skills.

Also, the casting time seems weird. Is it really a legendary feat to attack someone 1/2 mile away with a spear if it takes 15 minutes to do it? Part of what goes into that improvement is the instantaneousness of it.

I've been struggling with a FATE based magic system myself (some notes are on my blog at Neitherworld Stories, so I've been following this pretty avidly.

(Also, yay Tritherion! He was always one of my favorites.)

Mike Olson said...

Good to have you back and posting, Guy!

Stuart -- do you mind if I put a link to Neitherworld Stories in my Superb Resources?

(Seconded on the Trithereon fandom, but mostly because Rob from Thomas Miller's "The Adventurers" was a cleric of Trithereon.)

Unknown said...

@Stuart: I'll have to check out the blog this weekend! Thanks for the note.

As for casting time, the base rule I have been using re: Casting Time is that the "base" difficulty of the spell was 6, so you look at the 6th spot on the Time Chart (which in SoG is "15 minutes").

The player has the opportunity to choose to reduce the casting time on a 1:1 basis and thereby increase the casting difficulty.

In other words, if the player wanted to increase the difficulty by 5 (5 shifts back down the time chart), he could have had "instantaneous".

And yeah you're absolutely right, there's interpretation when you're doing this stuff on the fly, that does definitely weight performance towards a player who either has a "plan" or a persuasive tongue.

(But to be fair, Mike and I have had similar conversations about Fate and melee combat where a player with training / experience is much more effective in a Fate game than someone who totally abstracts it.)

Anyway, using hindsight the player probably should have requested a Temporary Aspect of "Praying", and gotten a -1 while he was at it, which would have been a no-brainer.

In fact, I would have suggested it, but for the fact that it was the player's choice to create a spell on the fly. So, in a similar vein as the old-school "Wish" spell, as GM I really wasn't interested in helping the player optimize what he wanted to do with his spell.

And I'm sure that, the player could have come up with a few other things (Modifiers, Aspects) in order to get more bang for the buck.

But I suspect that will come in time and more play experience.

Additionally, if you're looking for optimized magic effects, that's what the pre-made spells are for.

(Please don't think I'm shutting you down; I think you make very valid points and I may not have provided enough information in my writeup)

@All:

Trithereon is playing a very important role in this campaign, and the player really embraced being able to determine HOW to play a CG "paladin".

(We actually talked it through and essentially we consider the character something of a "Green Beret"; going behind enemy lines and helping the local people throw down their opressers! Something between a Paladin and a Ranger, I suppose)

Campaign Note: In fact he doesn't know it yet, but we roleplayed a scene that ended up with a "gaffe" against the PC where he chose to shelter teenage boys from harm instead of training them to help fight back against orcs... I'm gonna have some fun with that one! (mu-hu-ha!)

Anonymous said...

First, a suggestion. A wee bit of info on Caellod might make the example easier to understand. What are his Magic Aspect (Paladin of Trithereon?), his Magic Stunt (???), and the relevant skill ranks Magic (Apex, Superb?) and Missile (???).

Second, I Have many questions.

The caster determines what pre-existing Skill (owned by the caster) the Magic Stunt is tied to...
Is this done at character creation or the time of casting?

Power: Launch a spear to fly further than it could normally (+1 difficulty, Substitute Magic Skill for Missile Skill)
Caellod is making an on-the-fly skill substitution here and all it costs him is +1 to the spell difficulty? This seems to be over powered compared to similar stunts. For example, Universal Gadget can only be set once per session then it's locked in, Theory in Practice has a prerequisite stunt (Scientific Genius) and can only be used once per scene, and a Companion with Summonable and Variable Summons can only be set once per session (like Universal Gadget) unless you spend a FATE point to reset it.

Material Component: Blessed Spear of Trithereon (Uncommon, -2 difficulty)
Is there a Material Component Ladder (Common= -1, Uncommon = -2,...)? This gets back to some of the things I said about material components previously so I won't rehash them here. However, if this is Caellod's holy symbol, shouldn't he have an aspect "Spear of Trithereon" and maybe even a "Have a thing" type stunt for it? Then instead of reducing the difficulty of the spell he could tag "Spear of Trithereon" for a bonus on the roll, or a reroll.

Lastly, why isn't everyone a Sorcerer?
Biff the Superb: Magical Aspect: "Superb Sorcerer", Magical Stunt: "Superb Sorcery: Sorcery uses Magic skill", Skills: Superb Magic.

Spell: Superb Fighter
Power: Swing a sword like a fighter (+1 difficulty, Substitute Magic Skill for Melee)
Improvement: None
Material Component: Normal sword (Common, -1 difficulty)
Casting Time: (1+0-1=0, which equates to Free action / Instant)

Spell: Superb Archer
Power: fire a bow like a Ranger (+1 difficulty, Substitute Magic Skill for Missile)
Improvement: None
Material Component: Normal bow (Common, -1 difficulty)
Casting Time: (1+0-1=0, which equates to Free action / Instant)

Spell: Superb Unlock
Power: Pick a lock Like a Thief (+1 difficulty, Substitute Magic Skill for Burglary)
Improvement: None
Material Component: lock picks (Common, -1 difficulty)
Casting Time: (1+0-1=0, which equates to Free action / Instant)

I can even drop the material components and the casting time will be "An action / A few moments" or add two Improvements to make the casting time "A full action / Half a minute". This seems to give me a Superb, Universally broad skill that can perform any normal action and I don't even have to spend a FATE point! I don't need any other skills.

Anonymous said...

@Guy
Perhaps I should have put some smilies in that comment. Upon rereading it it does come across as sarcastic but that was not my intention. 8-)

Anonymous said...

Sorry to be a bother but I have another question.

Most (all?) D&D spells that do damage have a saving throw. In your system, if a spell doesn't fail then it always hits? This may make sense for your example where the priest was casting a spell at the time but what if he was aware of the attack. If Caellod had just thrown his spear it would have been an opposed action (Missile vs. Athletics). Using Sorcery to substitute Magic for an attack skill (Mellee, Missile, Intimidation,...) seems to deny the target the chance to defend? 8-)

Unknown said...

I looked at all the comments and the first thing that occured to me is, "Eek! What have I unleashed?? Rig for silent running! DIVE! DIVE!!" :)

The second thing that occurs to me is that I owe Mike a big fat "You were right. People really ARE reading this and are interested. Mea maxima culpa."

I'll even throw in a nice Catholic genuflect for good measure. ;) Now then. Back to business.

@All:

When I write these posts, I really, really struggle between the conflicting perspectives of...

* If I write too much supporting documentation, readers (if there are any) will respond with "Oh, just get ON with it!"

* If I don't write enough supporting documentation, I'll get... Well, I'll get what I got.

Honestly, in my concern for having not posted anything in a while, I pushed this post out before it was ready for public consumption. Lesson learned.

I'll take a few posts and hopefully better define a few things. Now, keep those cards and letters coming, but in the meantime:

@biff
Yeah, I'll post some information on Caellod. However, understand that the actual campaign I'm running was originally being run in "Greyhawk / Fantasy Hero" with players who had at least a decade or so of RPG experience each. So everyone wanted to do some off-the-wall stuff. So Caellod's original conception was never intended to be a pure "Paladin". More a guideline than a class, really. To tide you over, a partial snapshot of the PC looks like this:

Skills:
+5: Magic
+4: Missile Weapons, Melee

Stunt:
Magic

Aspect:
"Trithereon's will be done!"

More later, but your points about "who needs a skill if you got magic?" are great ones, and hopefully the future writeup will address that, or at least make it clear that I need to address that!

@biff (again)
Your point about combat spells and saving throws is an excellent one and one that I struggled with for a long time. And likely I'm NOT done struggling with it...

But the approach that has been used to date, also ties in with why I generally consider casting to be an uncontested skill.

The heart of the matter is that in the case of saving throws, the defender is defending against the power of the SPELL, not the power of the CASTER.

Upon further consideration I will admit there was an extenuating circumstance in the game that I didn't include in the original writeup--Friday afternoon at 6pm my harried brain thought it would unnecessarily muddy the example...

The other situation that happened was that once Caellod's spear passed over the minions performing the ritual (on the way to the clerics), the party witnessed the blue glow around the spear get "stripped off" (can't give the reasons why at the moment as my players might read this), but the momentum of the physical spear was continued, into the targeted cleric.

So, from that point on, the spear was considered a physical attack (i.e., another reason why I then said the difficulty of the spell was netted out, resulting in a +2 (Fair) attack.)

Given the nature of the attack and the cleric's focus on the ritual (Temporary Aspect due to the casting), he failed an Alertness roll and it was considered a physical attack from Ambush which gave him a Mediocre (0) defense.

So biff, it might have looked like "no saving throw". So in retrospect, that particular game example really WAS a horrible "first" example.

(Bad writer! Bad!)

Watch for better and more explanatory examples and updates. Thanks for sticking with me, gang.

Anonymous said...

@Guy

Caellod's original conception was never intended to be a pure "Paladin"

I never assumed he was a "pure" Paladin with Magic as an apex skill. Frankly, what drove me away from D&D - back in the 2e days - was the rails that it put your character on - constraining your character concept. Why can't a Wizard use a sword? Why can't a Dwarf be a Wizard? I also started to believe that they intentionally wanted to prevent players from being creative with their character concepts so that they could continue to sell supplements. Their business model was to ship a broken game so that they could make money fixing it.

That is why I love FATE. It gives you the tools to be creative. But it does have it's flaws; such as the lack of a workable magic system. It seems to be the most-hacked-thing about FATE.

I am not active in gaming right now. Everyone is interested in 4e and I am NOT. A solid,flexible, elegant magic system for FATE is my holy grail. With out that I'll never be able to get the band back together.

Stuart said...

Heh. One of my favorite D&D characters was, effectively, a 'paladin' of Tritherion. He was actually a Cleric/Thief who was a bit Batman-like... and the effective High Priest of Tritherion in Greyhawk.

He had an... interesting... relationship with the theives' guild.

Stuart said...

Mike: Link away!

Guy: Does the base difficulty = casting time seem to work out for you? The D&D assumption seems to be that most spells are cast quickly - are you getting too far from that? While I know that you aren't mimicking D&D, it is certainly an inspiration.

Are wizard spells like this, or just sorcery?

An alternative if you wanted to reduce casting time:

Casting time = base difficulty in rounds. Can be reduced for increased difficulty 1-for-1. Can be increased to rows on the time chart (ritualized) for a decrease in difficulty.

Unknown said...

@Stuart:

Okay, I'll make this answer relatively short and cover it in more detail in a real post.

SoG uses a slightly modified time chart where when you're in combat, the first few rungs of time represent game related times. (SotC uses "real world" time durations all throughout).

I have considered doing some sort of 2:1 ratio, but before doing something to make magic easier, I want to complete more Wizardry pre-fab spell conversions. Thus far, those I've done seem to hold up the 1:1 ratio.

So the pre-fab spells I've done still hold fairly close to times similar to the source material.

And yes, SotC holds (as does SoG) someone could take a decrease in difficulty by increasing the time. I mentioned in a previous post that it could be done with a pre-fab spell, but I would consider that adequate grounds to switch from 2DF+2 to 4DF. Meaning, I generally hold that the "pacing" of a pre-fab spell's casting is as locked in as the effects.